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tv   The Dylan Ratigan Show  MSNBC  March 25, 2011 4:00pm-5:00pm EDT

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libya may be at the center of the fight for freedom, but the libyans are certainly not alone in their battle. a day of rage in syria being dubbed a day of dignity by opposition protesters. soldiers opening fire during massive anti-government demonstrations. and there are reports of at least 30 dead. witnesses calling it the most widespread unrest in years. promising to sacrifice their souls and blood with a chance at freedom. conditions unraveling in jordan, as well, they've forced the mariett hotel to close down. and in yemen, following the playbook of hosni mubarak in egypt. calling the opposition a bunch of drug dealers and vowing to hang on to power until he can find a replacement he trusts. as for libya, nato is expected to officially take
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command of the operation there by the end of this weekend with a caveat. while nato will be in charge of enforcing the no-fly zone, it is the u.s. that will take the lead when it comes to the more difficult task of planning attacks on gadhafi's ground forces. even as the dictator promoted every soldier in his army today, the man leading the american mission is staying ca hard to make it hard for gadhafi and his troops to kill its own citizens and destroy property. but that is as i described yesterday, a delicate mission. >> nbc news chief news correspondent richard engel is in benghazi. what do we make of reports that gadhafi wants to meet with the opposition? >> we've heard many reports like that. we've also heard that gadhafi wants to send 2,000 people carrying olive branchs to benghazi, and one of the rebel
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opposition leaders said they're worried about this. they're worried it could be a trojan horse. they don't want these people to come into the city. they don't trust gadhafi at all to hold negotiations, they don't trust him to hold a cease-fire, and frankly don't want his representatives in benghazi or even close to where the rebels are. >> what are the rebels' point of view at this point about the nato versus u.s. role in these continuing operations? >> they don't really make a big distinction. they want the no-fly zone, the no-fly zone to continue. they want specifically those attacks on gadhafi's ground forces, which are already, we can see, making a difference. we were able to get inside the city in front of the rebels' front line, so to speak. and the only reason we were able to get in there and aid convoys were able to get in there is because for the last several days, there have been western air strikes on gadhafi's troops around ajdabia leaving them in a
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much weaker position. so the rebels haven't taken it yet, but the target has been softened to a degree that rebels are now getting into the city and aid is getting into the city. >> richard, what's the right way to think about who these rebels are? i think when people hear us saying they view it this way? do they know who they are? what's the right way for americans who are confused about this to make sense of it? >> reporter: the rebels are relatively united at this stage. the political leadership is somewhat complicated. but on the ground, there's a lot of solidarity, there's a spirit of unity, they want to drive to tripoli and remove gadhafi. that is a singular goal. and it is a goal that is uniting people from all walks of life. there are unemployed people, many professionals. we spoke to a man today, he spoke fluent english. he was from what it sounded like a fairly successful building
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contractor here in benghazi. and he sent his family, his wife, back to the uk. he was married to a british woman, and he picked up a gun and has now joined the rebel cause. so you have many people, most of them volunteers with a variety of different educational and backgrounds united in this goal. >> thank you very much for joining us on the ground from benghazi. be safe and stay with msnbc, you'll be hearing more from richard, i'm sure, as the story continues to develop. joining us from washington is christopher bosek for the middle east program for international peace, and also michael sing, former director of middle east affairs for the national security council. christopher, let me start with you, we're seeing an explosion across so many countries now. there's libya, yemen, bahrain, syria today. what's the right way to make sense of this series of uprisings that seem to be spreading like wildfire? >> well, i think one of the most
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important things is there's not one single cause behind all this. i think when we look at these different cases, tunisia, egypt, syria, there are local circumstances that are propelling these events. >> and michael sing, to bring you in. is it clear when we're thinking about all of these distinct situations, do we know who the opposition is? i was asking rch eng, lot w anxiety that we're not sure who we're dealing with on the other side and what exactly our dog is in this fight. >> well, i think, you know, one point where i differ from christopher is that i think actually the causes across these countries, there are great similarities between these places. you see similar economic conditions, which have led to some of this unrest, and similar
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political conditions. you see high youth unemployment across the board, you see high poverty across the board, and you see very little outlet for political expression in these countries other than street protests, so there are some similarities you look for from country to country. what is different from country to country is what exactly does the opposition look like? who is the most powerful faction? in some countries like egypt where we had relatively free access, i think we had a good sense of that. in other countries like libya and syria where our access was highly limited by the regime, we don't have as good of a sense of it. and so we're struggling with on and relying heavily not only our on diplomats for whatever knowledge they may have, but for other country who is may have better contacts than we may have in some of these places. >> let's dig deeper into yemen in particular. the president there making a rare public address to the public today sort of defining he'll leave if he can find
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someone he can trust to hand power to. what's the right sense of the american interest here? we hear a lot of talk that he's been an ally in our war on terror. and yet, a lot of what his role is and what the u.s. role should therefore be remains a little opaque. help us through it. >> well, i think when you look at american concerns with yemen, the it's driven almost exclusively by terrorism security. it's al qaeda. this has been the lens we view yemen through. and there's a huge problem in that we are not dealing with the systemic challenges that are at work in yemen. the chronic unemployment about 35%, which is on par with the great depression in this country, corruption, failing economy, population that's set to double in 20 years. everything that could be going wrong in yemen is going wrong. and focusing only on security ignores all the other instability. i think the president and the regime has said he was ready to relinquish power, but in an orderly manner. they're trying to work out that
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trns sigs. transition. >> go ahead, finish. >> i think what we're going to see in yemen is a negotiated settlement. >> michael, saudi arabia has to be thrown into this mix, as well. very volatile, and if you take what christopher's rightfully pointing out about the economic straits, especially the masses of young unemployed, the limited job prospects and economic prospects in the region, are we talking about some need for a western or u.s.-backed marshall plan? and can we take something like that on when we've already go so much of our own debt, deficits, and woes back home to deal with? >> well, i don't think that that should be our first priority here. i think that this is a region that has tremendous resources within it. look at the amount of oil, for example, and wealth that some of the gulf countries have. saudi arabia, remember, has been relatively stable except in the eastern provinces, in large part because they've been able the to inject these massive amounts of essentially aid to its
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population. they spent 8% of their gdp to try to quell any protests there. so i think what we need to look at is encouraging the gulf countries in particular, to have a broader view of their interests in the region, to look at their neighbors who are impoverished and experiencing economic problems, and to invest in their own region rather than looking outside their region solely as a place to invest their capital. i think that we really do need to have a new economic and political approach towards this region. >> christopher, just last word on this then. what will you be looking for in the coming days to see how the dust is going to clear in libya, in yemen, and in syria? >> well, i think in yemen, one of thehi foisilhe serivi. ifhecte stay together. probably the most important thing in yemen is the fact there are way too many gunsnday tha penreally terrible conseque. in libya, i think there's a
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whole other set of issues we haven't even talked about, which is how you square the support for the opposition dealing with the regime and wt comes next in libya. how do you think about stabilizing libya post gadhafi? there's been no discussion about that. >> all good questions. and obviously not the last time we're going to be dealing with these. thanks very much, gentlemen. christopher boucek and michael sing for aluminating with your thoughts. we'll tell you which massive corporation paid nothing in taxes despite making billions in profits. does that sound right to you? plus, michelle bauchmann heading to iowa. grabbing all the attention in republican contenders. but first, the politics for libya for president obama, we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this is lara. her morning begins with arthritis pain.
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had he waited for congress to come back, had he waited for -- you know, taken more time to debate and consult on this issue, i think there's very little doubt that benghazi would've fallen and that many people would've died. >> the white house press secretary jay carney hours ago trying to explain why the president didn't wait for congress to return to order air strikes in libya. but the president himself has still not addressed the crisis since arriving back in washington leaving the public wondering what exactly we're doing in libya and how long our commitment will last.
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with reports of more air raids this morning on gadhafi's forces, and lawmakers threatening to defund the libyan campaign. is it time for the president to make his case more directly? here to mix it up, democratic strategist bob shrum and the host of america's morning news amy holmes. welcome, both of you. let me start with you, the president hasn't spoken to the american people about this. we've got troops in the air, bombing taking place, isn't he a little tardy? >> no. the fact of the matter is that congress is not going to de-fund this. that's a bunch of white noise. the president has some pretty clear aims here. he can't say exactly what they are. our aim is clearly regime change, it's not in the u.n. resolution, i think that's what the ultimate outcome will be -- >> but he said that before -- >> no, he's for regime change, but i don't think he can explicitly connect it with this campaign. that is the objective. and in the end, he'll be judged by the outcome of this.
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if gadhafi is gone, people will feel good about the decisions he's made. if gadhafi is not gone, people will have a very different reaction. and he should not have waited for congress. ronald reagan didn't wait, the first george bush didn't wait in panama, and bill clinton didn't wait. >> even those who seem to be saying, please, president, do something just a couple of weeks ago. what do you make of the current situation? >> speaker john boehner, for example, sent a letter to the president to clarify the mission there. but he didn't say he was against going into libya, or against it for humanitarian reasons. but he wanted clarity on this campaign. and i think, actually, it would benefit the president if he did make a public statement that the goal of this is regime change. reuters had a poll out yesterday that 79% of the public supports getting rid of gadhafi. but something that's sort of been baffled by this, is that congress is out of session this week. and this could have been a great opportunity for the president to
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own the soap box, to own the megaphone. and he hasn't. he's been in latin america, kicking around soccer balls with little brazilian kids. >> i'm sympathetic to getting rid of gadhafi, but i'm anxious and torn. how many different nations can we take on militarily in the mideast just as a presidential leadership? you've counselled aspiring presidents, candidates in your life -- >> just because we fought a bad war in iraq and we had a badly fought war in afghanistan doesn't mean we shouldn't go in when it's right -- >> third time's a charm? >> no, i think they ought to be judged on their own merits. and we clearly face not only the prospect of a slaughter here -- i mean, rand paul if this was in front of the senate would have been filibustering while benghazi burned. but we do have a national interest. if gadhafi manages to retain power or recaptures the country, it will be a terrorist center, and gadhafi will do whatever he
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can to hurt this country. >> i would agree with that, you know. and at this point, woulda, coulda, shoulda. the president needs to clarify the end game for that. and that is getting rid of gadhafi. and -- >> there's a reason he's not clarifying. >> you're making the case of constructive ambiguity. >> no, he cares about the outcome of this, and about gadhafi being gone. he's holding a coalition together. this is done multi-laterally. it was a miracle to get the russian and chinese diplomatic not to veto this at the u.n. so he's not going to say the object is regime change, it clearly is. >> our allies are saying. the french said the objective of this is -- >> everyone's saying a little bit differently. what's the way to -- we've got in some cases this joint command now that's going to be taking place. is that a formula for disaster? or is that the inevitable politics of the situation like this that we have to live with? >> i keep reading about this,
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you know, and i was wondering if i was one of those gadhafi soldiers. and by the way, i think i'd rather be discharged than promoted. but if i'm one of those soldiers and those bombs and missiles are dropping on me, i don't think i'm worried about lines of authority. the president isn't worried about the soap box. he knows if two or three weeks from now we have the right outcome here, all of this isn't going to matter. >> i don't contest that, but i do wonder whether this kind of divide and command can lead to the outcome. >> well, and let me try to answer that, if i can. on my radio show, we've been interviewing retired military folks, colonel just yesterday who said really it's a fig leaf. when you put nato in charge, you're putting americans in charge and they will be making, calling the shots strategically. we have much better technology to be able to accomplish that. however, there are some military folks who are worried about divided command and we'll have to see. >> look, obviously, we're not going to solve this at this table today with our maps. we're going to be watching this. a glaring example of corporations working the tax
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code for their benefits while hardworking americans are dipping into their savings to settle up with uncle sam. the "new york times" reporting that last year general electric paid nothing in taxes, this despite the fact that ge made about $14 billion this past year. more than $5 billion from operations in the u.s. in fact, generallectr aid tabefiofor th $biio ge's ceo is head of of the council of competitiveness and jobs, making this a political issue for the white house. >> americans, i'm sure, who read that story or heard about it are wondering, you know, how this could be. it is part of the problem of the corporate tax structure. that companies hire, you know, armies of tax lawyers to understand how it works and to take advantage of the various loopholes that exist that are legal. >> we should note that ge remains a minority stake holder
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in this network. bob, is this a case of big corporate within the tax laws that's written. the president's actually talked about lowering corporate tax rates overall and simplifying the system so you don't have these exemptions. >> this doesn't sound like the people -- >> let me get to that. the most controversial aspect of this and the one i think is important is allowing corporations to shelter all of their profits overseas, which encourages them to ship jobs overseas and ship money overseas. that's a loophole that ought to be closed. realistically, do i think the president's going to take on and win that fight this year? no, right now the president who saved american businesses is trying to make friends with american businesses. >> we tax more corporations -- we tax our corporations more overseas than other countries do. >> i agree with lowering the
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corporate tax rate, but -- >> would you like the loopholes? >> no, the loopholes they're exploiting, this is the rich getting away with these things. why is it that rich people get so much for free while the rest of us, you know, middle class are paying for it? i think that's another casef this. honestly speaking, even if we had a flat tax, corporations would still have their army of accountants trying to hide their profits from the tax man. that's just a fact. >> and i do think as a long-term tax reform proposition, i'd like to lower corporate and payroll taxes and make it up through energy and consumption taxes. i want us to put up ge's response since we've given equal time. the official ge response was "the "new york times" story on ge's tax liability misses the biggest part of the story, which is the implications of the financial crisis. significant losses of ge capital are not a tax avoidance strategy.
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21% over the past several years." that's ge's point of view. >> it's the whole thing amy was just talking about. it may be true, but if the effective tax rate was 21%, how did they get $3 billion back? >> but there's also the moral outrage of this of not paying taxes and being an economic adviser at the same time. and as i said, the average person doesn't get to have that kind of influence with our government and, oh, by the way, not pay taxes. >> well, obviously, we're going to be watching how this -- this plays out in the whole corporate versus presidential sweep stakes. finally, presidential hopefuls gathering tomorrow in iowa for one of their first big cattle calls. the conservative principals conference. and minnesota lawmaker and tea party favorite michelle bauchmann may enter the ring. >> i think because of that, we've been making trips to the various early primary states to talk about the conversation
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about 2012, but i think we've moved a step closer at this point now. we're looking at iowa's straw poll in august. and in order to be a part of that, we'll have to make a decision about an exploratory committee. >> the controversial bauchmann's a darling on the right. but she's drawn for scrutiny. she's warned of reeducation camps for young people, claimed judges were telling little children to try homosexuality and said getting rid of the minimum wage would "wipe out" unemployment. what does it tell us about the rest of the republican field? what do you make of bauchmann and the rest of the field? >> you notice she talks about running and we talk about her. i don't think she has a chance to win the republican nomination, but she certainly can raise a lot more money. again raise her profile. remember, she did not get a leadership position this time around. she's the head of the tea party caucus, but not sitting there in
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the meetings with john boehner and eric cantor. this could be a way for her to gain more power within the republican party. i welcome her to the race. i think she would be, you know, a great, colorful candidate and standing up there on the debate stage would really put the other candidates' feet to the fire. >> amy's point, she talks about it and it does seem that candidates who are circling can take advantage of the media. she's now said she's considering an exploratory committee. next we'll do a hit when she announces an exploratory committee and tiptoes from that to an adviser to her committee. what do you make of it? >> well, first of all, someone like her can do a book that's essentially sky writing and it becomes a best seller. there is an advantage in this. but my attitude toward her is bring her own. i think she could win the iowa caucuses. now, the republican establishment is utterly terrified of the idea of her.
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maybe she'll mess up. she thinks that concord and lexington and the shot heard around the world took place in new hampshire. maybe she'll think the first caucuses are in nebraska and not bother to be there. >> winning the iowa caucus does not win you the nomination. >> and the democratic party recently has and the republican party there's such a domination of evangelicals and fundamentalists out there that there tends to be a pullback. >> i want to put up the current poll. and this is the current snapshot. mike huckabee at 19%, mitt romney at 15%, ron paul at 6%, mitch daniels at 4%, pawlenty, 3%, barbour, 2%. it's inevitable when it's not a presumptive nominee, which the republicans tend to have that it's going to look like the seven dwarves before we get into the thick of it. is that where we are? >> i think so. we saw in 2008 that description of the democratic field.
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those numbers say there's not a front runner yet. but we also know that debates can make a candidate or break a candidate and someone can break away from the quote unquote dwarves in the process. >> republican strategists are always saying that the message they feel they've got is winnable for them as we look toward 2012. do you think they're right? >> if i were them, i'd be saying that. all the polling data i see right now suggests to me the president's in pretty strong shape. the economy's going to get better. the republican field is relatively weak. you don't have bush running, you don't have chris christie running. and that's what republican leaders would really like. we did, by the way, have a presumptive frontrunner, his name was mitt romney, but he wears a scarlet letter on his forehead and it's romney-care, and he's been bashed for it in the party. >> when you said we, i thought you meant hillary clinton and she didn't get the nomination. >> true. or an interesting point.
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>> democrats don't always nominate the frontrunner, republicans do. bob dole had no chance in 1996 marched to the nomination. >> more with the analysis, thank you so much. up next, the mideast unrest fueling higher prices in the oil industry. how will it affect america's economic recovery? and should we rethink our energy policy altogether? >> announcer: this past year alone there's been a 67% spike in companies embracing the cloud--
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developing news from japan. officials there now worried about a possible breach at one of those damaged reactors. if a crack or hole isun i ulme mhor r s re evusug authorities grew concerned when two workers suffered burns after they waded into water that turned out to be 10,000 at the plant to a halt today. japan's prime minister calls the situation grave and serious.
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in the meantime, the death from the quake and tsunami now over 10,000 with more than 17,000 people still missing. meanwhile the crisis in the middle east has prices near $105 a barrel today. and prices will likely be here for a while. economists expect prices to remain high, hovering around the $100 per barrel mark through at least 2013. before the revolution in egypt, oil was trading under $90 a barrel. so how much will these high oil prices drag on our economic recovery? and could it prompt americans to cut back or even rethink our approach to energy entirely? joining me now, an oil trader at the mercantile exchange. he's also author of this new book "oil's endless bid." welcome, dan. what's the right way to think about these oil spikes? you've been in these markets for years. it's not always just the supply and demand that it seems to be, there are other forces at work. >> in fact, there are forces
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which are much more important than supply and demand. this is the thesis of the book. it's been, in fact, a price structure set up through wall street, designed to bring investors into a market that really was never designed to take investor interest. and now it's been growing by leaps and bounds, particularly over the last four or five years. and it's caused what has been an enormous spike and a bust in oil in 2008/2009. i believe it's causing another spike and obvious bust that will happen that we're in maybe the third or fourth inning of this year. >> does that financialization of oil, if you will, is it uniformly a bad thing? the case has been made at least before the bad housing bust that securitizing mortgages gave credit availability so more people. is it all downside in your view? or are there positives about the way oil is traded, as well? >> even with housing, if you look at the stock market. if someone decides they want to invest in the stock market, well, you put up your money and take your chances. you know there are risks attached to it.
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even in housing, even if you're in a house, you must know there are certain risks downside in housing. in oil for the most part, most of the world isn't invested in oil. most of the world doesn't have a stake in the price in terms of the financial stake of the price, but they do have a stake in terms of what they pay at the pump, in terms of what it costs them to heat their homes, what it costs to get back and forth to work. so clearly there is an incentive to have more controls over an oil market where everybody is unfortunately or fortunately involved even though they may or may not be directly invested in it. >> that means a case for more regulation, are you arguing? because the oil markets have been essentially hijacked by financial elites whose interests are at odds with consumers? >> first of all, the financial elites are one piece of the puzzle. the other piece of the puzzle are people like you and me. everybody who has been reaching for hard assets instead of the soft assets that we know that
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are real investment instruments like stocks and bonds. >> and is that because they're trying to diversify to make sure that our pensions aren't as much as risk? or that's the theory? >> precisely, and the doors were opened in the year 2000 with the cmfa. of course it only really took off in 2003 when some of these indexes that are aligned with commodities begin to become more mainstream and people were allowed to invest in them. and indeed in 2006 the over-the-counter market really took off in oil. and we saw this explosion of nominal paper barrels in oil that's now 15 to maybe 30 times the real oil that's out there. >> are you making a case for a return to more plain vanilla styles of investing? does that mean this is a job for elizabeth warren? >> i think she's the perfect person for someone to get a hang on this. it's clear that the cftc -- >> future trading -- >> that's correct.
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commission, they've been asked by the dodd/frank bill to get control over this energy market. and they were obligated to have control, rules in place by the end of february of this year. clearly they haven't done that yet. in fact, they've put off some of their -- looking at some of these positions until next year. and they've been inundated, absolutely buried by lawyers and by industry advocates who really don't want to see a lot of regulation coming to this market because they're making a lot of money at it. >> this is a very similar story. if you were counseling elizabeth warren -- >> hasn't called yet. >> if she were to call, what are the two or three things you think should be the top of her list in this area? >> although it may be difficult to get to the place we need to get to in terms of oil, it's not hard to see where it is. it was where it was before the cfma was in 2000. where the people who were
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involved were those who had physical risk in the market. people who produced oil, people who used it. >> used it to hedge their -- >> correct. and they used the financial instrument to hedge what they were actually using. >> and that's legitimate in your view. it's an important tool, one that many of the people who use and produce oil rely upon to be sure of gaining risk management. >> but you were going to finish up. we've got a few seconds left. >> but clearly that has been overrun by people who have no interest and no connection whatever to the physical product on either side are just betting on price. >> well, this is going to be an issue we're obviously going to need to come back to in the future because the entire energy situation is not going to be going away. so, dan, thank you very much for taking the time. and we'll make sure that everyone's happy to look at your book as they try and digest these things. this is "oil's endless bid." >> thanks for the shameless plug. >> that's part of the business. thank you, sir. changing our approach to
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energy. is it going to be the focus of dylan's next steel on wheels tour? this time it's a three-day energy summit in oklahoma. beginning wednesday with the scope of our energy use. mainly what we waste. we'll dive into the problem and find solutions when we come to you live from a travel stop in oklahoma city. i'll be along with dylan for that show. then dylan heads north to oklahoma state university for two days of shows examining how to end the strangle hold of big oil and encourage more efficient energy sources. one of of the options is natural gas, which we'll explore with a big proponent of its use, t. boone pickens. he's also one of the panelists in a town hall next thursday night that dylan will be hosting at 8:00 p.m. eastern. you can watch that from wherever you are by logging on to also other various platforms. that all begins next wednesday, mark your calendar, here on
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msnbc. still ahead on the "dr show," robots in the workplace. why the competition for your next job may be made of silicon. but first, keep the change. netflix raising eyebrows with an apology and a very low refund. ♪ [ folk pop ] [ man ] ♪ if you got worries then you're like me ♪ ♪ don't worry now i won't hurt you ♪ ♪ and if you got worries then you're like me ♪ ♪ don't worry now i won't desert you ♪
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we're back with some stories you may be talking about as you start your weekend. first o.m.g. for the o.e.d. the oxford english dictionary is adding some texting abbreviations, including o.m.g. which stands for oh, my gosh. also l.o.l., laugh out loud. and you can't forget bff. in my humble opinion a solid choice. it's not an abbreviation in case there was any doubt about the meaning of muffintop, you can look that up too.
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fyi, nothing to do with breakfast food. and heart, the symbol and the verb as in i heart the d.r. show. for those of you feeling particularlylucky,th memillions jackpot has ballooned to $312 million. imagine the possibilities. mansions, yachts, or you could donate some of your newfound millions to charity. or you could fund the "not war" in libya, that is for about 6 1/2 days, that's when the money would run out. we're not even including tomahawk missiles, which a megamillions winner couldn't afford. and speaking of financial windfalls, if you were hit by technical difficulties when using netflix online tuesday night, you're entitled to a payout of about 23 cents that is. not exactly the megamillions jackpot. it's all the result of a 7% credit netflix is offering its customers on their next bill because of tuesday's streaming
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snafu. and because the service runs almost $8 a month, you get almost a whole quarter back. but, hey, in this economy, every little bit counts, right? up next, robots coming to a job interview near you. how the job market will be transformed by the robotic revolution and sooner than you think. [ male announcer ] this is lara. her morning begins with arthritis pain. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day
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jobs are already scarce in america despite some early signs of recovery. but the latest threat to employment might not be outsourcing, it might actually be robots. according to one estimate, there could be more than 1 million robots working jobs that used to belong to humans in the next two years alone. marshall is the founder of how stuff works, an informational website. welcome, marshall, first of all, i have to ask you, how do i know it's you and not some robot replica you've put in your place? >> we're getting very close to that point. there's a species called geminoids where you reproduce yourself as closely as possible to a robot. >> is this really something people need to fear?
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the idea of 1 million jobs over the next couple of years sounds like scare tactics. but what's your take? >> well, watson kind of put us on notice because that was such a leap the thing about robots, and we can refer to them as the second intelligence species on this planet is they get better every year. human beings tend to be the same every year. robots get better and better and better. so they can drive cars one year a little bit, the next year they can drive cars really well. google has demonstrated cars that have driven over 100,000 miles on real roads by themselves. and next year, they'll be a little bit better than that. and when you look at that and then you look at some of the capabilities coming down the pipeline, you know, one of the big things that the second intelligent species is missing right now is vision. as soon as vision gets really dropped in price and made
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flexible enough to enter the workplace, that's when the real job replacement starts occurring. and that's really when we start worrying about the robotic effects on the economy. >> i want to put up some of the job categories that you and others say could be at risk in the years ahead. we've got pharmacist, lawyers and paralegals. i know some folks would be as happy to have automated lawyers. astronauts, soldiers, and a whole other category of more in person services, babysitters, drivers, store clerks, rescuers. we'll never be able to automate cable hosts, right, marshall? >> absolutely not. >> much too much specialization and expertise. walk us through -- is this really -- is this really something that's on the horizon soon? >> well, pharmacy robots are deployed now. you know, we're flying automated
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drones over afghanistan, pakistan now. we are automating lawyers to some degree now. and when you look at the -- at the job marketplace, you look at a retail establishment, a large big box store, there are people in there stocking shelves and sweeping floors and bringing shopping carts in from the parking lot. those are the kinds of jobs in the retail space, then in the restaurant space it's flipping burgers and cleaning toilets and things like that. and you move over to construction where it's stacking bricks or putting roofs on houses. all of those kind of jobs, once vision systems that are flexible enough become available, those jobs as well as the driving and delivery jobs and the remaining factory jobs, they all become targets for robotic replacement. and that is not going to be -- >> and yet, marshall, some economists, i think, would generally say that even though it sounds a little scary to employment in one sense that we
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shouldn't really have a fear of technology this way because over time -- if we feared technology, we'd all still be farmers. and it turns out we raised productivity in farming so much that instead of 80% of us farming, only a relative handful of us do so that new resources will be freed up and human capital to pursue the jobs of the future. isn't that a positive piece of this, as well? >> well, that's the conventional wisdom. to farming was replaced by manufacturing jobs, which are now declining and being replaced by service sector jobs. there's not a next big pool of jobs coming down the pipe. so once we replace the entire service sector with robots, you have to ask, what is the next thing people are going to do? and with robots gaining capabilities so quickly, and, you know, really watson showing us that it can happen both on the intellectual side as well as the manipulative side, there are really big questions about what is going to make up the pool of
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replacement jobs once the service sector gets washed out by robots. >> well, marshall brain, thanks for giving us what might be an anxiety-producing vision of the future, though i'm holding out hope that my blackberry butler will be cheap enough that everyone can have it. thanks again for taking the time. coming up on "hardball," chris mathews looks at what president obama should say to the american people when it comes to libya. but first, in an age where teachers are often scegoatsa trib aanho madal en. in ns with deposits in your engine, it can feel like something's holding your car back. let me guess, 16. [laughing] yeeah. that's why there's castrol gtx... with our most powerful deposit fighting ingredient ever. castrol gtx exceeds the toughest new industry standard. don't let deposits hold your car back. get castrol gtx. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering.
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it's that time during the show when we normally turn things over to someone for a
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daily rant. today the daily rant will be done by me. i'm talking about how we mourn the heroes of our country and of our communities. two extraordinary americans died this week after eight decades on the stage. but you've only heard of one. you know, the violet eyes, the seven marriages, the diamonds, the oscars. i want to tell you about the other. the teacher who had the most influence on my life and on thousands of other students. elizabeth taylor shows one path to glory, but my teacher belongs in his own class of the true immortals. mr. trautwein was the music director in the high school where i grew up. from eighth through 12th grade, an deinquitfosiin anpeng ye i was 16 once.
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as a byproduct, he taught us to pursue excellence in, well, in everything. mr. trautwein was my model for integrity, hard work, discipline, and exacting standards. the man's energy and passion were electric as was his mmme terin seoues as he led us through productions, he also taught us the virtue of using a little borderline madness to get your way. the man was known to throw plastic chairs high against the wall and yell at the top of his lungs when we let him down. tricks generally dropped from the playbook but certainly got our attention. we go on with his battle cry. a call that persists, a call to persist that rings down to this day. rude, crude, and unattractive was his all-purpose critique of unacceptable team behavior. i don't care if you loathe me, but by god, you'll work for me, he'd say, so we did. one of mr. trautwein's pupils became a star of stage and
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screen, a leading man in "guys and dolls" who has done tons of tv and film work. there's craig with the gang from high school. we are proud of you, craig. liz taylor has millions of fans, but unlike george trautwein, she didn't inspire hundreds of students to share memories of a man we loved and who loved us and changed our lives. there's a lot of teacher bashing these days, but after writing my column this week, i've heard from readers around the world about the teacher who changed their life. people get this. we live in an age of celebrity and it's only natural that we reach for netflix and toast liz taylor. but the legacy of a great teacher is different. over the decades, not a month has gone by that i haven't thought of mr. trautwein with gratitude. he's always been with us and always will be. since what he gave us is transmittable, he'll even be in our


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